Kat and Phoebe discuss a Catholic kicker's commencement-speech controversy, two literary autopsies of the Great Awokening, and whether communion wafers taste like flesh. LINKS: Harrison Butker is Catholic. So What? | The Free Press The speech in full :
I'm only at the beginning, but I'm waiting in line for something, so you get to hear my opinion already. To me his talk doesn't sound so much Catholic as it does evangelical.. Like, I am neither Catholic or Protestant, so it's not like I'm an expert, but don't Catholics like nuns? They have much more room for women who decide that they have a vocation to stay single and live a life of service to the community, even without taking vows.
Also, I am a pretty devout person. And also I did stay home with my kids, and I homeschooled them (though not for religious reasons, just because I am a nerd). But I would definitely never say that my life started when I got married, or when I had my babies. That is a really weird thing to say.
I also have a former friend who has devolved into a casual acquaintance like this. Memorably, I once complained on social media about a housemate clogging the garbage disposal and he went on a tirade about how terrible those are for the environment. My dude, it was a rented apartment, I did not choose the sewer system.
When I first learned about Harrison Butker’s speech my immediate thought was it was a nothing burger, welcome to religion, this is it – a religious man saying religious things to a religious crowd, it was not particularly controversial to me, I’ve heard much worse!
Back when I was a Jehovah’s Witness minister I was once asked to do a sermon on the Bible’s view on homosexuality. Spoiler alert – God does not like it very much! I just couldn’t do it, so I feigned illness and someone else in the congregation did it instead. This was the beginning of the end for me, it was time to abandon family loyalty and stand for what was right. I’m so glad I left.
In the unlikely occurrence of an untimely death; I volunteer to deliver the Eulogy for Kat or Phoebe. “I want to begin by contemplating the outsized effect of the deceased person’s most memorable action - signing The Harpers’ Letter…”
Whenever I contemplate cheering on a dunking-on, I remember the Streisand effect is a thing. In this age of fierce partisanship, tribalism, whatever you call it, reposting to get an ordinary person shamed is counterproductive: your target gets people defending them, and your soul becomes a little more corrupted. By all means, condemn political figures, CEOs, and other truly powerful people as you see fit. But I usually find the best reaction to a post you detest is writing or sharing a positive post on the same subject, making your opinion clear without drawing attention to any rando (or even non-rando) on the opposite side.
Loved Nancy's story, and I KNEW this is where Kat was going with her commentary. I have to admit I am a bit primed to be all "these goddamn morons" re: the kicker discussion. Granted an NFL player is going to have enough financial means to insulate himself from the worst parts of harassment and public shaming, but that does not mean "fire at will". I wrote a comment novel over on her substack about it, but it boils down to contact with humanity for me. You can read that screed if you want over there. But I think how Phoebe might be looking at this is another place where I am super sensitive about (we all are at this point I think?): Hypocrisy. All the talk about free speech is to me just euphemistic. Side A cancels / harasses someone for saying XYZ, when in the recent past someone on Side A said a similarly divisive thing and got a pass. Partisans gonna partisan, but for it still rubs us all the wrong way every time. The reason the campus thing remains in the eyeline of media is specifically because of this (micro agressions bad, celebrating terrorism fine). The reason Bubba got driven to suicide was because of this (a pastor with a secret salacious life). A political side "defending democracy" by actively subverting it. Growing up we all know the spitting rage we felt when our parents did shit like this. Tell us not to curse when they do, tell us to go to bed when they stay up late, and the "Do as I say, not as I do." which boils down to the nuclear option "Because I said so.". I just short-circuits our lizard brain and our mouths run ahead screaming "the redcoats are coming". One of my favorite Norm bits I think is apropos for this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljaP2etvDc4 anywho, loved the talk and I am enjoying how you two are ever so slightly diverging and not singing the same song all the time. I am slowly getting over the "why are mommy and daddy fighting" vibe of disagreement, mostly I wager because how much grace you two give one another when approaching a disagreement. Being the change you want to see in the world, ya'll are doing it right.
The censorship police need to find a hobby instead of inventing reasons why others should not speak. Let the catholic football player say what he wants. You have the right to disagree or to sway the public with a superior argument. Every time that liberals call for more censorship- they are sending voters into Trump’s booth.
I disagree with pretty much everything that Kat said here. Why is it acceptable for the kicker to say offensive shit but not acceptable for me to say that I disagree with it?
I just have a hard time conceptualizing a celebrity (a minor one in most of the world but his name is known in Kansas) at a graduation ceremony as a private individual speaking in private.
What he said was deeply offensive to a lot of people. I think it’s fine for folks to tell him that. Otherwise we’re stacking the deck in favor of conservatism pretty much every time.
I'm only at the beginning, but I'm waiting in line for something, so you get to hear my opinion already. To me his talk doesn't sound so much Catholic as it does evangelical.. Like, I am neither Catholic or Protestant, so it's not like I'm an expert, but don't Catholics like nuns? They have much more room for women who decide that they have a vocation to stay single and live a life of service to the community, even without taking vows.
Also, I am a pretty devout person. And also I did stay home with my kids, and I homeschooled them (though not for religious reasons, just because I am a nerd). But I would definitely never say that my life started when I got married, or when I had my babies. That is a really weird thing to say.
I knew a guy like that in library school. Conversation with him was like walking through a minefield. It was not a super endearing trait.
I also have a former friend who has devolved into a casual acquaintance like this. Memorably, I once complained on social media about a housemate clogging the garbage disposal and he went on a tirade about how terrible those are for the environment. My dude, it was a rented apartment, I did not choose the sewer system.
When I first learned about Harrison Butker’s speech my immediate thought was it was a nothing burger, welcome to religion, this is it – a religious man saying religious things to a religious crowd, it was not particularly controversial to me, I’ve heard much worse!
Back when I was a Jehovah’s Witness minister I was once asked to do a sermon on the Bible’s view on homosexuality. Spoiler alert – God does not like it very much! I just couldn’t do it, so I feigned illness and someone else in the congregation did it instead. This was the beginning of the end for me, it was time to abandon family loyalty and stand for what was right. I’m so glad I left.
I regret to inform you that communion wafers taste like absolutely nothing except a little bit like glue.
Yeah, I would say paper with an overtone of glue
I would say a cardboard-rubber hybrid
In the unlikely occurrence of an untimely death; I volunteer to deliver the Eulogy for Kat or Phoebe. “I want to begin by contemplating the outsized effect of the deceased person’s most memorable action - signing The Harpers’ Letter…”
Whenever I contemplate cheering on a dunking-on, I remember the Streisand effect is a thing. In this age of fierce partisanship, tribalism, whatever you call it, reposting to get an ordinary person shamed is counterproductive: your target gets people defending them, and your soul becomes a little more corrupted. By all means, condemn political figures, CEOs, and other truly powerful people as you see fit. But I usually find the best reaction to a post you detest is writing or sharing a positive post on the same subject, making your opinion clear without drawing attention to any rando (or even non-rando) on the opposite side.
Loved Nancy's story, and I KNEW this is where Kat was going with her commentary. I have to admit I am a bit primed to be all "these goddamn morons" re: the kicker discussion. Granted an NFL player is going to have enough financial means to insulate himself from the worst parts of harassment and public shaming, but that does not mean "fire at will". I wrote a comment novel over on her substack about it, but it boils down to contact with humanity for me. You can read that screed if you want over there. But I think how Phoebe might be looking at this is another place where I am super sensitive about (we all are at this point I think?): Hypocrisy. All the talk about free speech is to me just euphemistic. Side A cancels / harasses someone for saying XYZ, when in the recent past someone on Side A said a similarly divisive thing and got a pass. Partisans gonna partisan, but for it still rubs us all the wrong way every time. The reason the campus thing remains in the eyeline of media is specifically because of this (micro agressions bad, celebrating terrorism fine). The reason Bubba got driven to suicide was because of this (a pastor with a secret salacious life). A political side "defending democracy" by actively subverting it. Growing up we all know the spitting rage we felt when our parents did shit like this. Tell us not to curse when they do, tell us to go to bed when they stay up late, and the "Do as I say, not as I do." which boils down to the nuclear option "Because I said so.". I just short-circuits our lizard brain and our mouths run ahead screaming "the redcoats are coming". One of my favorite Norm bits I think is apropos for this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljaP2etvDc4 anywho, loved the talk and I am enjoying how you two are ever so slightly diverging and not singing the same song all the time. I am slowly getting over the "why are mommy and daddy fighting" vibe of disagreement, mostly I wager because how much grace you two give one another when approaching a disagreement. Being the change you want to see in the world, ya'll are doing it right.
The censorship police need to find a hobby instead of inventing reasons why others should not speak. Let the catholic football player say what he wants. You have the right to disagree or to sway the public with a superior argument. Every time that liberals call for more censorship- they are sending voters into Trump’s booth.
I disagree with pretty much everything that Kat said here. Why is it acceptable for the kicker to say offensive shit but not acceptable for me to say that I disagree with it?
I just have a hard time conceptualizing a celebrity (a minor one in most of the world but his name is known in Kansas) at a graduation ceremony as a private individual speaking in private.
What he said was deeply offensive to a lot of people. I think it’s fine for folks to tell him that. Otherwise we’re stacking the deck in favor of conservatism pretty much every time.
This conversation needs a medieval image of Jews stabbing a host that then proceeds to bleed: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_antisemitism#/media/File%3AMaster_of_Vallbona_de_les_Monges_(Guillem_Seguer_%3F)_-_Altarpiece_of_the_Corpus_Christi_-_Google_Art_Project_(cropped).jpg