I remember him as one of the guys pushing the 'owning the tumblr SJWs' schtick, back in the ancient times of the early/mid-2010s. Had no idea he was even still relevant.
Yes, Sargon/Carl has been online for a very long time, he was a part of the Skeptic/Atheist “community”, which eventually dissolved into equally mad right and left wing factions in about 2011. I don’t remember him being so right wing back in the day, I guess he likes to hop on any bandwagon that gets him clicks. He used to post videos about how silly Christians and Muslims are but he now seems to be pro-Brexit, anti-feminist, anti-immigration, checking all those predictable boxes.
I guess I’m a little confused about the premise of the last topic? (1) it’s pretty clear that at least some women like naked dudes which is why lots of movies now feature muscular dudes with their shirts off (2) in general, people are just kind of uncomfortable with seeing the actual genitals of strangers, which is why male nudity tends to feature mostly butts and abs and female nudity tends to feature butts and boobs (3) a corollary of the latter is that actual penises and vulvas in movies tend to be featured in scenes that are intended to make us a little uncomfortable, like the dehumanizing nudity in Schindler’s list. So I’m not sure I buy the claim that we need more penises in movies for representation reasons (is anyone male or female actually asking for that?). I’d be happy to settle for a 1-to-1 ratio of butts, I guess the main feminist question question here is about the equivalence of shirtless men vs women but I suspect if you counted them up we’re already seeing like 5x as much of the former since it doesn’t impact a movies rating.
Not to mention: even when there is full frontal male nudity, the men are often wearing prosthetic....um, members. And women are often wearing merkins (or...anti-merkins?? do they make sheer ones for actresses with hair who won't shave it for filming??).
I would also add that Elaines “men’s bodies are objectively gross” was a pretty standard tenet of 90s feminism, I definitely remember my very feminist and very heterosexual friend telling me that. So I don’t think chalking it up to the male writers is entirely correct.
I listened to most of this thinking “bless their hearts”. Have you seriously never heard the term body count used in this way? I don’t know how long it has been in common usage, but I encountered it in 2017 and got the distinct impression that I was late to the party. The whole discussion today sounded like y’all had stepped out of a late 90s-early 2000s time capsule wholly unaware that the discourse had moved on. Yes, people care how many people their partner has previously slept with, for good reason, and yes, they care more for women than men (and I say this as one of those women who was deceived by feminism that being a slut was acceptable and lived to tell about it, see, e.g. Bridget Phetasy’s essay about regretting being a slut). Given the biological and average psychological differences between men and women, the asymmetry makes sense, however unfair it is perceived to be, and likely isn’t ever going to be a thing of the past.
And to weigh in on nudity, let’s get real: that’s never going to be equal either. Women are the decorative sex, men are not. Many women have tried really hard to adopt a leering gaze to equalize the objectification of women with that of men, but it just doesn’t work, because most women are closer to the Elaine view of things even if they tell themselves they need to enjoy seeing Sam Heughan’s ass for the umpteenth time. (I stopped watching Outlander, which is still in production btw, because I couldn’t in good conscience participate in it any longer).
One more thing: stop using the word prude like it is legitimate. That word is used to belittle and shut down conversation, not to engage on the very serious issues that this episode presents. More and more people are starting to realize that sex is meaningful and powerful, whether we wish it were so or not. It’s so much more complex a discussion than simple disgust.
1) Obviously everyone has heard "body count" used in this way, we were having some fun. Used by grown adults in this way, however, is ridiculous. No, not everybody cares.
2) "Women are the decorative sex, men are not." That's definitely what the people selling clothes and makeup to women would like you to think!
Oh thank goodness! I honestly couldn’t tell whether it was serious or not. It’s a bizarre term, no argument on that. And I apologize for being snarky, that’s not my usual MO.
I can't recall the last time a guy asked how many people I have slept with (I refuse to use the term in question; see my rant about it on the last open thread). BUT, I have often asked men how many women they have slept with! Did they tell the truth? Who knows! Did the number matter? Nope! I was just curious, perhaps because I often knew these guys were not going to be around long-term, and, knowing these would probably be casual short-term dating situations, I thought that maybe by asking this question, I could gauge how often they did this ("this" being, engage in casual short-term sexual relationships) and hence gauge their intentions with me.
I have never asked my boyfriend of 2.5 years his #, and he has never asked mine. Honestly, the reason I refrained from asking when I first met him, before our non-casual status took hold, was because I thought his answer might be quite low and I didn't want to embarrass him (should he have a # low enough for a guy to be embarrassed about and tell me the truth); I figured that if he told me a high #, I would assume it to be lie. So, I concluded that I would learn nothing from asking him, and that his answer would be irrelevant anyway - I knew I liked him, that's all that mattered.
From SATC Season 1, episode 3 (Bay of Married Pigs) Miranda *tried* to be a lesbian. She did not like it. Although she was assumed to be one by the firm senior partners. So maybe she was ‘coded’ as one but that seemed to reinforce bs gender roles not her real expression.
I’ve read Kat’s two most recent novels (technically, listened to them), and I can remember seven people she’s had murdered. I think three or four per book is about on par with Agatha Christie (And Then There Were None is certainly an outlier).
I recommend both of them, by the way: No One Will Miss Her, and You Must Remember This.
It's not the 90s anymore. The world has since entered a state of increasing prudishness in many ways, particularly being uncomfortable with women being caught overty pleasing men in any way at all, usually, unless it's strong women being brave and free, for themselves, and not for the man. Or something.
So bodycount is shorthand for young folks finding out "have you been playing hookup culture, and if so, how much, how long, and am I your next experiment?" or are you neo-celibate like most people who aren't in a committed relationship?
Carl Benjamin is only commenting on what @justPearlyThings and others are making their bread and butter. Women telling women that men do care about a woman's sexual experience.
The premise of this whole Internet phenomenon is that Millennial and younger women are finding men have a disgust response to or are intimidated at the prospect of trying to seriously date someone with more sexual experience than the man has. (see: the Kevin Smith documentary Chasing Amy)
(No. We are not past this. And we want to see if we can make the men feel like sluts too. Bunch of people, men in particular, not having much sex lately and shaming anyone who is having more. Like in some 80s comedy. Elvira: Mistress of the Dark etc.)
BodyCount- I never heard of such a thing. During high school (early 80’s); there was the usual gossip about “Jane Doe is a slut” because it was a fish-bowl environment. But, beyond high school - nobody knew the “bodycount” of another unless close friends told one another or maybe if you volunteered at the local STD clinic. But, posting one’s count for strangers to see, is stupid. Interesting that Sargon of Akad would find it important.
I am surprised that you did not discuss Cynthia Nixon's true perversion (leaving sexual orientation aside) in this episode--her ordering a cinnamon raisin bagel with lox and capers: https://www.bonappetit.com/story/cynthia-nixon-bagel-order-review
That's fucked up
Well that's just wrong.
Sargon of Akkad is one of those guys who gets his kicks being awful. I think he has a YouTube channel.
I remember him as one of the guys pushing the 'owning the tumblr SJWs' schtick, back in the ancient times of the early/mid-2010s. Had no idea he was even still relevant.
Maybe he isn't and this is him flailing for attention...
Yes, Sargon/Carl has been online for a very long time, he was a part of the Skeptic/Atheist “community”, which eventually dissolved into equally mad right and left wing factions in about 2011. I don’t remember him being so right wing back in the day, I guess he likes to hop on any bandwagon that gets him clicks. He used to post videos about how silly Christians and Muslims are but he now seems to be pro-Brexit, anti-feminist, anti-immigration, checking all those predictable boxes.
I guess I’m a little confused about the premise of the last topic? (1) it’s pretty clear that at least some women like naked dudes which is why lots of movies now feature muscular dudes with their shirts off (2) in general, people are just kind of uncomfortable with seeing the actual genitals of strangers, which is why male nudity tends to feature mostly butts and abs and female nudity tends to feature butts and boobs (3) a corollary of the latter is that actual penises and vulvas in movies tend to be featured in scenes that are intended to make us a little uncomfortable, like the dehumanizing nudity in Schindler’s list. So I’m not sure I buy the claim that we need more penises in movies for representation reasons (is anyone male or female actually asking for that?). I’d be happy to settle for a 1-to-1 ratio of butts, I guess the main feminist question question here is about the equivalence of shirtless men vs women but I suspect if you counted them up we’re already seeing like 5x as much of the former since it doesn’t impact a movies rating.
Not to mention: even when there is full frontal male nudity, the men are often wearing prosthetic....um, members. And women are often wearing merkins (or...anti-merkins?? do they make sheer ones for actresses with hair who won't shave it for filming??).
I would also add that Elaines “men’s bodies are objectively gross” was a pretty standard tenet of 90s feminism, I definitely remember my very feminist and very heterosexual friend telling me that. So I don’t think chalking it up to the male writers is entirely correct.
“Out-of-context penises”
(Personally, I’m against them)
I listened to most of this thinking “bless their hearts”. Have you seriously never heard the term body count used in this way? I don’t know how long it has been in common usage, but I encountered it in 2017 and got the distinct impression that I was late to the party. The whole discussion today sounded like y’all had stepped out of a late 90s-early 2000s time capsule wholly unaware that the discourse had moved on. Yes, people care how many people their partner has previously slept with, for good reason, and yes, they care more for women than men (and I say this as one of those women who was deceived by feminism that being a slut was acceptable and lived to tell about it, see, e.g. Bridget Phetasy’s essay about regretting being a slut). Given the biological and average psychological differences between men and women, the asymmetry makes sense, however unfair it is perceived to be, and likely isn’t ever going to be a thing of the past.
And to weigh in on nudity, let’s get real: that’s never going to be equal either. Women are the decorative sex, men are not. Many women have tried really hard to adopt a leering gaze to equalize the objectification of women with that of men, but it just doesn’t work, because most women are closer to the Elaine view of things even if they tell themselves they need to enjoy seeing Sam Heughan’s ass for the umpteenth time. (I stopped watching Outlander, which is still in production btw, because I couldn’t in good conscience participate in it any longer).
One more thing: stop using the word prude like it is legitimate. That word is used to belittle and shut down conversation, not to engage on the very serious issues that this episode presents. More and more people are starting to realize that sex is meaningful and powerful, whether we wish it were so or not. It’s so much more complex a discussion than simple disgust.
Oof OK, so:
1) Obviously everyone has heard "body count" used in this way, we were having some fun. Used by grown adults in this way, however, is ridiculous. No, not everybody cares.
2) "Women are the decorative sex, men are not." That's definitely what the people selling clothes and makeup to women would like you to think!
Oh thank goodness! I honestly couldn’t tell whether it was serious or not. It’s a bizarre term, no argument on that. And I apologize for being snarky, that’s not my usual MO.
True, not everybody cares!
I can't recall the last time a guy asked how many people I have slept with (I refuse to use the term in question; see my rant about it on the last open thread). BUT, I have often asked men how many women they have slept with! Did they tell the truth? Who knows! Did the number matter? Nope! I was just curious, perhaps because I often knew these guys were not going to be around long-term, and, knowing these would probably be casual short-term dating situations, I thought that maybe by asking this question, I could gauge how often they did this ("this" being, engage in casual short-term sexual relationships) and hence gauge their intentions with me.
I have never asked my boyfriend of 2.5 years his #, and he has never asked mine. Honestly, the reason I refrained from asking when I first met him, before our non-casual status took hold, was because I thought his answer might be quite low and I didn't want to embarrass him (should he have a # low enough for a guy to be embarrassed about and tell me the truth); I figured that if he told me a high #, I would assume it to be lie. So, I concluded that I would learn nothing from asking him, and that his answer would be irrelevant anyway - I knew I liked him, that's all that mattered.
From SATC Season 1, episode 3 (Bay of Married Pigs) Miranda *tried* to be a lesbian. She did not like it. Although she was assumed to be one by the firm senior partners. So maybe she was ‘coded’ as one but that seemed to reinforce bs gender roles not her real expression.
I’ve read Kat’s two most recent novels (technically, listened to them), and I can remember seven people she’s had murdered. I think three or four per book is about on par with Agatha Christie (And Then There Were None is certainly an outlier).
I recommend both of them, by the way: No One Will Miss Her, and You Must Remember This.
I would love to hear your guys' take on this new york times report on a witch hunt at a california high school, written in the prose style of the cringiest YA novel ever. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/17/magazine/california-high-school-racist-instagram.html
If the only result of Elon taking over twitter is that people I really like finally get off of it, I owe the man at minimum a six pack of beer. :D
EDIT: OMFG I never heard the O'reily story before, them shits is hilarious!
Someone even wrote an opera back in the day featuring Bill O'Reilly and his falafel thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wxc8ZY0plM4
It's not the 90s anymore. The world has since entered a state of increasing prudishness in many ways, particularly being uncomfortable with women being caught overty pleasing men in any way at all, usually, unless it's strong women being brave and free, for themselves, and not for the man. Or something.
So bodycount is shorthand for young folks finding out "have you been playing hookup culture, and if so, how much, how long, and am I your next experiment?" or are you neo-celibate like most people who aren't in a committed relationship?
Carl Benjamin is only commenting on what @justPearlyThings and others are making their bread and butter. Women telling women that men do care about a woman's sexual experience.
The premise of this whole Internet phenomenon is that Millennial and younger women are finding men have a disgust response to or are intimidated at the prospect of trying to seriously date someone with more sexual experience than the man has. (see: the Kevin Smith documentary Chasing Amy)
(No. We are not past this. And we want to see if we can make the men feel like sluts too. Bunch of people, men in particular, not having much sex lately and shaming anyone who is having more. Like in some 80s comedy. Elvira: Mistress of the Dark etc.)
Wow- Kat and I have something in common; I too has a fling with an Australian guy. But its OK, because I am gay - we have different rules.
BodyCount- I never heard of such a thing. During high school (early 80’s); there was the usual gossip about “Jane Doe is a slut” because it was a fish-bowl environment. But, beyond high school - nobody knew the “bodycount” of another unless close friends told one another or maybe if you volunteered at the local STD clinic. But, posting one’s count for strangers to see, is stupid. Interesting that Sargon of Akad would find it important.
Important song regarding naked men, Joe Biden, and the Senate gym (featuring Blondie!)
https://youtu.be/HKgQKW3yhWI?si=2EfWpK5o6fXON4Ee